To speak or not to speak?

[elionwyr]

XKCD recently posted a comic that's inspired some pretty varied reactions - discussion thread on the site itself here.

Comic in question:


Truth be told, I read this pretty quickly the first time through, and I thought it was illustrating a game-playing woman. Which annoyed me. But of course what it's actually showing is a scenario where two people are not saying hello because they're shy and/or afraid.

fireheart pointed out the strip and the discussions around it to me. (His videoblog and links to other discussions can be found here.) And our chat inspired some after-talk thoughts to percolate in my head, and so - la! - I am putting virtual pen to paper here.

What I learned early on in Philadelphia was to not make eye contact with people on the street, because when I did, it invited attention I wasn't seeking and didn't really have the social skills to handle. fireheart pointed out that nothing bad actually ever happened to me personally when I did make eye contact and say hi to strangers, and he's right. I would say I've actually gotten more negative treatment when I did *not* raise my eyes. Which was the topic of this woman's blog and this short film. Regarding the film: I've absolutely seen this happen - this aggressive how-dare-you-not-talk-to-me attitude. And I've not seen anyone step in to stop the behavior. We as women are conditioned to either ignore it, or to give the man the attention he's seeking. I remember being on a bus and seeing a woman be badgered into giving a man their phone number, and..it is to my shame that I didn't say anything. I didn't feel it was my place. Perhaps it wasn't. I'm still not sure (obviously).

The whole topic gets more confusing when you consider that the rules change according to where you are. I've been told that people in Philly are colder/ruder than they are in NYC because they don't make eye contact in Philly, nor are they as likely to say hi. If you're in the southern part of the US, being friendly with everyone is ok; if you are further north, you're committing a grave social faux pas. If you are a man and you are friendly, there's that chance - illustrated above - that you're creepy. If you're a woman and you do it in the wrong place at the wrong time, you may be inviting more friendliness than you intend. You may not be..but we're conditioned to be afraid.

I agree with fireheart that if you are able to walk with your head up, be confident, you are radiating strength and confidence and are much less likely to be taken for a victim. And even knowing that, I'm not very likely to start making eye contact on the street, or on the bus. (I quantify that because, within the safety of, say, a con, I am definitely more outgoing..which goes back to my thoughts of it being a social rule sort of thing.)

I think it's better to not be afraid to say, "Hey, nice netbook!" or, "What book are you reading?" I try to be more that kind of person, personally.

We have so many rules and reasons to not talk...no wonder so many of us are so lonely.

Comments

[softlywhispered.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those people who says hello to people, and smiles. When I was in DC visiting I would say hello to the police, and was told that it just wasn't done, that they think it's odd.

Of course I was raised in Florida, the south, so It's southern hospitality, and I'm a strongly confidant woman (most of the time) so I will carry my chin up, I will meet you with my eyes, and if That look is not a smile, you had BETTER watch out. *grin*

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

re: saying hi to the police

*laugh* Awesome.

[brujah.livejournal.com]

My take on reading it: Guy rides bus, every day. Girl rides bus, every day. They both find the other attractive, but fear of rejection keeps them from speaking to each other.

... What I don't see is him being a predator or anything at all, even remotely, of rape. Or any of the other tripe people are projecting onto his thought bubble or her blog. O_o

I was flamed in a thread elsewhere for saying that my moral compass must not be refined enough to catch the evil emanating from the strip and that the only person who truly knew what the strip meant was the artist -- any other translation of it was pure speculation.

I've lived in seventeen of the states and two foreign counties. I've traveled pretty extensively, but my upbringing roots me in the hospitality of the south-land.

I find it appalling that the rules of engagement have reduced us to insulated bubbles that verge on the edge of discourtesy.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

You were flamed? Yeesh. No, I think you're pretty much on target.

And - um - part of any sort of art is that it's open to interpretation, so - yes, of course you're correct.

Thank you for responding to this. :)

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

Mmm. Perhaps it's haughty of me to do it this way, but the way I usually avoid eye contact up north: keep my eyes up and completely ignore everyone. It looks less timid/victimish than keeping the eyes down. I don't know that it makes a difference in the amount of attention, but it makes a difference in what kind of attention I get - men feel challenged by it, and challenge me in return, but they mostly act like I *should* feel like a victim, instead of assuming that I *am*.

Living in the south is, in some ways, a little easier. I know who to make eye contact with and largely how to do it. I even smile or nod acknowledgment sometimes. But I shouldn't walk alone after dark, and the racial profiling I've defaulted to is upsetting.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's interesting re: adjusting from the north to the south. I do think that the looking-ahead-but-not-making-eye-contact thing is the better option.

While I will say that I generally do not attract attention - I'm damned good at being invisible - I get MORE (positive) attention when I'm in a bad mood. Which I've never understood.

re: walking alone after dark et al
Yeah, I grok. :(

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

You know, it's weird - I get more attention when I'm angry, up north. Which feeds on itself until I'm ready to punch the next mofo who smiles at me. Heh.

Down south, anger seems to intimidate men a little more. But oh boy, the first time I went to the grocery store once the sickness started - walking slowly and deliberately, not looking at anyone, probably looking very distressed - I got so many looks and attempted interceptions. It would've pissed me off if I'd had the energy.

Yeah...north vs south is really interesting sometimes. In a lot of ways I prefer it here, because men are more timid about actually saying things. I get looked at all day long, but the comments are few and far between. Thus far my absolute favorite place for attention is Texas, though (I discovered this on a road trip years ago) - I got almost no comments, much more polite looks, no interceptions, and the one yelling-out-the-window genuinely just wanted a smile. He wasn't looking to intimidate me or make me feel small, he just wanted to see me smile. I obliged. :)

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

I have commented on a book that I stranger is reading. It is a book, I know books. I have even commented on a stranger's computer, if I thought it was cool.

I have had people ask me about Fred the netbook, and I give them the whole "I love my computer" speach, complete with examples and background music...

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

I love this about you.

[sidhefire.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's social rules or what; but I guess I fall into the category of always assuming the other person isn't interested... but then I do that a bit even with people I know. Someone pretty much has to hit me over the head with a big stick before I'll realize that they are actually interested in me...

[briansiano.livejournal.com]

You have to admit, one good way of avoiding eye contact is to look at women's boobs.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

:P

[0ccam.livejournal.com]

I've not read too many of the discussions about this particular xkcd, but none of the ones that I've read have mentioned the name of the particular strip or the tooltip/popup text.

The name of that strip is "Creepy".

The tooltip/popup reads "And I even got out my adorable new netbook!"

FWIW, I read it as irony. He's overthinking his simualtion of the encounter and she wants him to talk to her. And that's it.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

*nod*

[iwhisperwolf.livejournal.com]

I don't see any evil in this. I see a lot of myself, as many have.

I'm in shape now, Have a love, and am better looking than I've ever been, but I still can't fathom anybody being interested in me.
Every time a woman shows interest I still have to fight that Old "Must be something wrong with her if she likes me." Thought.
And after I do get to know the girl I'm always secretly looking for proof that she would have loved me anyway back when I was chubby.
I've ended relationships for things girls have said out the corners of their mouths about random people.

I'm just too conditioned toward introversion upon first meetings. I'll go back mentally to the disgusted face of the first girl I asked to dance, or some other early trauma.

I don't feel unconfident about myself after that first part is over with... I'm great AFTER first impressions.

And people say that confidence is key with first impressions, but what they often fail to realize is that confidence doesn't come out of thin air, it's based on successes. And the lack of social successes in my earlier life are still influencing the successes I might otherwise have today.
I don't have a pool of "Good job!"'s to lift me up the way most confident people do.
I have to really work for it and pull it outta my backside.

Aaand I'm rambling...

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

But I like it when you ramble!

You best smile when you stay that partmer.

[klynn330.livejournal.com]

I find myself a little offended by the suggestion that being friendly and hospitable is a strictly southern trait. As a born and bread northerner, I have never had any trouble making eye contact, or connections, or starting up conversations with strangers or anyone else. It happens all the time in fact. In Philly even. In New York City. Even in London, where I am told that people DO NOT SPEAK to each other - and that from a Londoner. But maybe I am odd. I have found that being open and empathetic has granted me more positive opportunities than negative encounters, so I do not fear people as a general rule.

Re: You best smile when you stay that partmer.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this perspective!

[cussingeorge.livejournal.com]

I have to say that klynn330's perspective is pretty much how I feel. At least since graduating high school. :)

[fireheart.livejournal.com]

I've been intentionally staying out of the discussion because it was distracting me from more important things, but I am glad to hear that my part of it has helped you to think about it.